This is what traditional marriage looks like...

But seriously, what the Christian right and many others are doing is taking a rather new definition of marriage and calling it traditional when it is anything but. Marriage has never been this God-ordained, unchanging institution. During biblical times, polygamy was the norm. Marriages based solely on love and companionship have really only been around since the source of economic revenue was moved outside the home and moved into the factory, office, or someone else's farm. For thousands of years marriage was a business arrangement. You married someone who had the same basic set of skills that you did, so that you could make a living being a farmer, baker, fisherman, etc. In the words of EJ Graff, author of "What is Marriage For?": "A farmer needed a farmwife, to help bring the eggs in. A fisherman needed a fishwife, or they couldn't get the goods to market. This kind of arrangement was done not so people could get rich, it was done so they wouldn't starve. The saying was 'he who marries for love has good nights and bad days'." If you were from a family with property, you would marry another person with property so as to expand your holdings. This was the way marriage was up until it was no longer necessary.

And all of this is one of the reasons why the state should get out of the business of marriage all together. While the state is going to meddle in marriage, it should be open to all consenting adults, but the governement has no business regulating what kind of relationships adults enter into. One should not have to be married in order to have legal and financial security. People should have those rights anyway, as an individual, and as a couple. If marriage is about love, and these days I think we all agree that it is, or that it should be, then I don't need the permission of the State of New Hampshire to build a life with my partner. Lack of marriage equality is one of the most absurd intrusions the state makes into people's private lives.

Traditional marriage is about economic ties. It's about pooling resources. It is also about training. The fisherman doesn't go into marriage with the fishwife like he goes into business with a business partner. He goes into marriage for the purpose of reproducing. Marriage is about raising the next generation.

The state has an interest in seeing that its citizens reproduce responsibly. No one is talking about forcing arrangements on to unconsenting partners, like in Mormon country or in the Islamic world. The contract of marriage is about reproduction and therefore the legal benefits of marriage should be reserved for heterosexual couples only.

Yes, you are right. Marriage is about reproduction, which is why we don't let the elderly, the infertile, and those who do not wish to have children get married.

He also called the amendment a waste of time.

...is also opposed to gay marriage, he just doesn't want to alienate any potential constituencies by supporting an amendment. I guess he wants to "unite" people, but only if they're heterosex0rs.

This Internet slang is too much for me.

Or maybe he supports gay rights, but has to oppose marriage because honestly, what politician can get elected supporting gay marriage?

As mentioned before the whole Biblical argument goes out the window once one actually reads the Bible. Funny how no one talks about enforcing the Biblical laws that Christians don't like to talk about (Kosher dietary laws, rules for owning slaves, rules concerning not wearing clothing made of two different types of fabrics, the propper way to burn a Bull once one has sinned, and that's just Leviticus!). It's nice to see bipartisan support for this sort of Relgious doublespeak.

Sadly, writing discrimination into State Constitutions is nothing new. Take a look at these choice selections from various State Constitutions and think to yourself, "What if I'm an Atheist?" Freedom of Religion in America? Yeah, right!

Arkansas
"No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court."
article 19, sect. 1 of the 1874 constitution

Maryland
"That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty... nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefore either in this world or in the world to come." Bill of Rights: Article 36

Massachusetts
"As the happiness of a people, and the good order and preservation of civil government, essentially depend upon piety, religion and morality; and as these cannot be generally diffused through a community, but by the institution of the public worship of God, and of public instructions in piety, religion and morality: herefore, to promote their happiness and to secure the good order
and preservation of their government, the people of this commonwealth have a right to invest their legislature with power to authorize and require, and the legislature shall, from time to time, authorize and require, the several towns, parishes, precincts, and other bodies politic, or religious societies, to make suitable provision, at their own expense, for the institution of the public
worship of God, and for the support and maintenance of public Protestant teachers of piety, religion and morality, in all cases where such provision shall not be made voluntarily." Declaration of Rights: Article III

North Carolina
"The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God...." Constitution Article 6 Section 8

Pennsylvania
"No person who acknowledges the being of God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth".
Declaration of Rights Article 1 Section 4

Tennessee
"No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."
Bill of Rights: Article 9 Section 4

Texas
"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."
Article 1 - Bill of Rights: Section 4]

Awesome post, thanks for the info. I had no idea so many states required belief in God to run for office.

It bottom line is this. There is no reason outside of religous belief, to deny marriage equalty to gays and lesbians. And since we supposedly have a seperation fo church and state in this country, religious arguments cannot and should not be made in debating gays' right to civil marriage. Thousands of gays and lesbians are in loving, committed lifelong partnerships, and they should not be punished simply because they love a member of the same gender. It's that simple.

Is there any reason at all for the state to get involved in marriage? Gay marriage equality aside, what's the point of continued government involvement?

I think if you're synagogue, mosque, church, whatever wants to call you and someone else, great. Why does the state have to be involved?

I totally agree. I don't think the state should issue marriage licenses at all. I would like to see an end to government-sactioned marriage. I would love to see a movement away from marriage and towards stable, loving families without marriage. Then the government would have to respond with progressive family law, a la Scandanavia. "Marriage" as an institution doesn't make people more stable. If you are committed to your partner and family, the piece of paper itself does not make you more committed. People who screw around on their spouses and don't take care of their kids are going to do so with or without a state-issued marriage license.

I am not advocating an end to religious marriage. I support religious and commitment ceremonies of various stripes. If people want to profess their love and fidelity in front of their friends, family, God, etc. I think that's beautiful. I actually enjoy going to weddings when they are sweet and heartfelt, and not obnoxious.

But since my grand marriageless dream is not going to happen in this country any time soon, where the legal, financial and social benefits for taking the trip down the aisle are overwhelming, I support opening up civil marriage to all adults, regardless of sexual orientation.

Despite the confusion it inspires, I am a fan of the headline "Sen. Jack Barnes and Company Hate teh Gays, Lesbians"

The definition of teh.

But seriously, it's okay. It's not really that 1337 anymore. lol

1) Because Bizarro is not Superman.
2) Because I shouldn't have to bring enough gum for everybody.
3) Because if everybody did what I did they would die trying.
4) Because communism sucks.
5) Because jews get too many breaks already.
6) Because the 2nd Amendment is far more important than the 14th and far less abstract.
7) Because no one who wears pink shirts should be allowed to marry.
8) Because their kids will look like Kate Moss.
9) Because this ain't college. Put them toilets where I can reach em with my ass.
10) Because gay people by definition can't perform a matrimonial act.

1) Are you twelve years old?
2) See answer 1.
3) Because if everybody did what I did they would die trying.
HA HA HA HA HA HA kill yourself.

4) Because communism sucks.
Glad to know you are stuck in 1989. This explains your lyrics.

5) Because jews get too many breaks already.
Keep telling yourself that you aren't a pig fucking New Hampshire hick.

6) Because the 2nd Amendment is far more important than the 14th and far less abstract.
Please use this right to purchase a gun. Then see my recommendation on point 3.

7) Because no one who wears pink shirts should be allowed to marry.
What about people with pink skin?

8) Because their kids will look like Kate Moss.

Counterpoint: Your kids will look like this:

9) See counterpoint 1.

10) Because gay people by definition can't perform a matrimonial act
She's gone. Let her rest in peace.

The anti-gay marriage amendment. I think putting this kind of thing into a constitution is stupid.

I really don't understand what the whole Gay Marriage is about...if you are gay and want to be married, then buy the rings, have a ceremony (you don't need a religious leader or a judge) invite your family, get them drunk, and have fights break out just like straight marriages (ok so maybe that's just my family). If you don't agree with the Law about gay marriage, then don't go seeking the laws approval. Marriage is a legal right to some and not others...if you want marriage to be free to everyone, will any of you complain about mothers and sons, brothers and sisters, dads and daughters etc getting married? But don't forget that it's just a piece of paper given to you by the state who makes ya pay for it....so if you really love whoever you're with, do you really need that piece of paper saying that you're with them? I honestly don't think so.....and hey look at it this way.....you don't have to worry about anyone taking half your stuff when you break up...no divorce ;)....and I honestly don't think that any of the people against gay marriage hate gays...it's just a political sh*t storm, they don't want to alienate any potential voters or other politicians...they just want to say what the most people want to hear, so be careful about slinging that "hate" stuff, unless they come right out and say "I hate them butt pirates!".....cause there really is no way to tell it......oh and to whoever posted those regulations from states....funny that you didn't post the years those laws were created...if ya take a look back at the times then, you could literally be stoned to death for being a bugger boy. Now ya'll want a piece of paper to say that you're with someone....ha....just be glad that you're not stoned anymore and that a lot of people (maybe not as openly as you want) don't have an opinion on what you do with your poopchute in your own homes...face it you're a minority trying to force the majority to do as you want......come back when you're not a minority and we'll talk ;).....

You're too obvious. Try harder next time.

Marriage is more than a piece of paper. It is a set of legal privileges.

There is so much in this rant it is hard to decide where to begin...but this gnome will try.

"If you don't agree with the Law about gay marriage, then don't go seeking the laws approval."

The only reason why gays and lesbians are seeking the law's approval is because there are hundreds of legal protections and benefits they can't get unless they are married. I don't think it is because they give a shit about whether the state "approves" of their marriage, they just want to be able to visit their partner in the hospital and not have their dead partner's family throw them out on the street.

"will any of you complain about mothers and sons, brothers and sisters, dads and daughters etc getting married?"

Yes I will because of two things: one, incest is marked by abuse and is coercive and abusive on its face, which is why rape crisis centers provide services to incest survivors as well, when gays and lesbians en masse start needing services to help them heal and cope with the "trauma" of merely being in a relationship with a member of the same sex let me know. If you know of a case where the "relationship" between a father and daughter, brother and sister, etc. was consensual and non-abusive, I want to see it. I would love to see THAT poster child.
And two, because incest has always been looked down on in almost every culture throughout time, even in cultures where homosexuality was tolerated or even celebrated because of the damage it does to the gene pool. People have always been aware of the damage to offspring when members of the same family procreate.

"so if you really love whoever you're with, do you really need that piece of paper saying that you're with them? I honestly don't think so....."

No, and that's not why gays and lesbians want the right to get married...they want the legal benefits and protections. Gays don't give a shit about the gov't "recognizing" their relationship...we've gone this long with the gov't our families, the church and society looking down on our relationships, we just want to be certain that that we can stay in the house we bought with our partner, visit them in the hospital, and get survivors' benefits.

"funny that you didn't post the years those laws were created...if ya take a look back at the times then, you could literally be stoned to death for being a bugger boy. Now ya'll want a piece of paper to say that you're with someone....ha....just be glad that you're not stoned anymore and that a lot of people (maybe not as openly as you want) don't have an opinion on what you do with your poopchute in your own homes..."

Ah yes...my favorite "quiet, faggot" argument. Which goes something like this: Sit down and shut up, you should be glad we even let you live! A variation of this is if a gay person criticizes American foreign policy, the response is: "oh yeah...well you should go live in Iraq or Cuba you commie-loving pillow biter, and see how they treat your faggot-asses over there!" As if I should be humbled and glad that I am not being stoned to death right now. So much for being pro-life...

"face it you're a minority trying to force the majority to do as you want......"

I don't give a flying rat's ass what the majority does, I just want to be able to marry my partner. Me marrying my same sex partner does not require the majority to do anything. This is the greatest fallacy of all, that somehow gay marriage is going to affect the masses. IT DOESN"T. If Joe marries Tim, the vast majority of Americans will not have their lazy asses disturbed, and they can continue watching American Idol. In actuality, it is the hand of the majority fingerbanging a minority into submission when it comes to gay marriage.

"come back when you're not a minority and we'll talk ;)....."

Yes, good thing the blacks waited for the whites to decide that they really needed to do something about civil rights for African-Americans. That strategy worked for them and it will work for us. But if that doesn't work, we butt pirates and carpet munchers will just have to step up the recruitment of teenagers and we should be a majority in no time. Then can we talk? ;)

Talk about values… What a scumbag!

Link to Soltani article

How does one man manage to make so many ugly children? Polygamy should be illegal when it creates such ugly babies.